The clubhead , the Hands, the direction of Thrust all approach the ball from the "inside" just as the Plane dictates given any angle of inclination. Picture it from down the line......to move down plane is to move Out and Down towards the Plane Line.
A straight Plane Line has an associated Inside out approach given any inclination to the plane. A vertical plane would have only down and no out. A Horizontal Plane would have only Out and no Down.
Per 2-J-2 ".......Though its an "Inside Out" Impact its not an Inside Out Stroke unless the Plane Line crosses the Line Of Flight as depicted in photo 10-5-E" (Closed , Closed).
So in other words the direction of Thrust is not "cross line" or "across" like you say unless you construct a cross line , closed Plane Line and then thrust down and out along this new plane towards its Base Line. Thereby thrusting out "across" the original straight plane line.
To get the Down and Out along the plane, it seems that I have to have the "feeling" of across. When I have the feeling of "down the line" it results in a big pull. Of course, too much across (like you've described above) and big hook (that starts down the line and turns over like a top spin forehand in tennis!).
The side arm throw feeling actually captures what I feel when I hit good shots, but I was concerned that I was "switting" and didn't want to ingrain that feeling. Also, cannot believe how slowly I can swing and hit really crisp shots. Tempo has been a real challenge, but one worth fighting.
I got into the whole "hitting" vs. "swinging" because I've been away from golf for 6 years and want to develop a more consistent approach to ball striking. I've always been streaky -- tour caliber shot followed by cold top, a fat one, then another 9-iron to three feet. Way too frustrating. Hitting seems to offer the control (plus I'm getting near 50, so flexibility is fading!).
Been lurking here for a year, but am thankful you guys are willing to share.
To get the Down and Out along the plane, it seems that I have to have the "feeling" of across. When I have the feeling of "down the line" it results in a big pull. Of course, too much across (like you've described above) and big hook (that starts down the line and turns over like a top spin forehand in tennis!).
You have to get into the geometry of chapter 2 . It aint easy but its worth the effort.
The clubhead does approach the ball from the inside , assuming the ball is positioned back of low point. Its not a optical illusion or anything it literally does as it comes down the slanted, Inclined Plane. Down and OUt towards the base line. It should feel like this too. So yes, to feel like you are swinging straight line towards the target.......Steering in the book.......is to bend the plane line to the left.
Contrary to what the golf magazines at the time were saying (and the PGA) Homer thought that the ball started at right angles to the clubface at Separation. That the ball curved in accordance with any divergence between face angle and clubhead path. The opposite of what we thought , but now confirmed by Track man etc etc.
So.....if your hooks are starting down the line and then hooking left like you say .........your face is square at Separation and your clubhead path is Crossline , bent to the right. Pretty close to being good. But if you flip the face over you've got more work to do, it'll take you longer to fix. But join the club , its the golfers afflicition.
So.....if your hooks are starting down the line and then hooking left like you say .........your face is square at Separation and your clubhead path is Crossline , bent to the right. Pretty close to being good. But if you flip the face over you've got more work to do, it'll take you longer to fix. But join the club , its the golfers afflicition.
That last has been my big, bad miss this year -- wicked hard low left hook. Worst is beating the ball off the tee into the ground about an inch in front of the tee.
I'm working on eliminating the flip. Bad habit I picked up years ago from the pictures of pros parallel after impact. Really bad habit trying to flip the clubhead at the ball.
I'm off on vacation after today...little yellow book is going along with me.
You have to get into the geometry of chapter 2 . It aint easy but its worth the effort.
The clubhead does approach the ball from the inside , assuming the ball is positioned back of low point. Its not a optical illusion or anything it literally does as it comes down the slanted, Inclined Plane. Down and OUt towards the base line. It should feel like this too. So yes, to feel like you are swinging straight line towards the target.......Steering in the book.......is to bend the plane line to the left.
Contrary to what the golf magazines at the time were saying (and the PGA) Homer thought that the ball started at right angles to the club face at Separation. That the ball curved in accordance with any divergence between face angle and club head path. The opposite of what we thought , but now confirmed by Track man etc etc.
So.....if your hooks are starting down the line and then hooking left like you say .........your face is square at Separation and your club head path is Cross-line , bent to the right. Pretty close to being good. But if you flip the face over you've got more work to do, it'll take you longer to fix. But join the club , its the golfers affliction.
Hi OB and everyone. I have been following this discussion and I tried to explain the "down, out, and forward" to myself by ignoring the frozen, bent right wrist (FBRW) and concentrating on tracing the baseline of the plane with only my forearm. If I ignore the FBRW, I can really see the baseline of the plane past Impact Fix sighting down my right forearm.
In my understanding of TGM, as long as my FBRW is rock solid, given an Impact Fix stance, any Pivot and thrust along the plane will result in a "down, out, and forward" strike applied by the FBRW. Is that right? Is that how a pro or talented golfer manages so much more compression? They sight down the right forearm well ahead of the ball and keep driving down?
If that is a correct understanding, that would explain why a properly FBRW, used with say, a 3 wood, would not allow for a "Punch Basic" stroke since the 3 wood's length would not allow the FBRW to ever hit the ball before the arm drove all the way down (lacking a Pivot).
What I'm trying to gauge, OB, is a standardization of distance and clubs. In a funny way, the end of the "swing" might not be as important as where Both Arms Straight occurs. I'm also concerned as to my lack of distance and divots. I have a funny feeling as to their one-to-one correspondence.
Yesterday, on my way to my first 80 and the initiation of the CGCBF ($1, I "forced" a strong sand iron to a 95 yard carry over water (instead of the usual 80 yard carry and 10 yards of roll). I then "forced" a 6 iron to a 185 yards of carry vs. the usual 170 yards of carry and roll. In both cases, I did not really get much of a divot but just sighted further ahead down the right arm and along the target line. I made sure my FBRW was rock solid throughoutt the round and really Pivoted strongly.
Thanks in advance!
Patrick
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Patrick, have you tried the Aiming Point procedure? If no, try it and see if you dont feel like you are Thrusting Down and Out , towards the Plane Line past Low Point all the way to Both Arms Straight, Follow Through.
You said "thrust along the plane" , you must, need to, thrust down the Inclined Plane. Our perception of things, our intent changes the geometry. Either for the better or the worse. Maybe the Aiming Point deal is better for you than Tracing? Maybe not. They are geometric equals but not exactly the same by any means......I bet you see some divots.
Will research and I get the power of intentionality!
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
Patrick, have you tried the Aiming Point procedure? If no, try it and see if you dont feel like you are Thrusting Down and Out , towards the Plane Line past Low Point all the way to Both Arms Straight, Follow Through.
You said "thrust along the plane" , you must, need to, thrust down the Inclined Plane. Our perception of things, our intent changes the geometry. Either for the better or the worse. Maybe the Aiming Point deal is better for you than Tracing? Maybe not. They are geometric equals but not exactly the same by any means......I bet you see some divots.
I will report back.
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Patrick, have you tried the Aiming Point procedure? If no, try it and see if you dont feel like you are Thrusting Down and Out , towards the Plane Line past Low Point all the way to Both Arms Straight, Follow Through.
You said "thrust along the plane" , you must, need to, thrust down the Inclined Plane. Our perception of things, our intent changes the geometry. Either for the better or the worse. Maybe the Aiming Point deal is better for you than Tracing? Maybe not. They are geometric equals but not exactly the same by any means......I bet you see some divots.
This Aiming Point doctrine is amazing!
Yoda said:
You may be able to accomplish the correct alignments in Fix, but fail totallyin real time. If so, the problem may well lie in your Right Shoulder location.In Fix, make sure you keep that Right Shoulder down (On Plane per 7-13).You're probably coming into Impact too high, and as a result, you're "runningout of right arm," an automatic throwaway. From the Top, turn yourRight Shoulder directly toward the Ball and then through it, and continueto Trace the Straight Plane Line with it into the Follow-Through. PictureTrevino's Right Shoulder Down on plane through impact and let it happen.
He also wrote:
w.
In your pre-game warm-up, emphasizeyour Impact Fix position before each shot. Focus first on the very shortones -- Acquired Motion per 12-5-2, Right Forearm no higher than level withthe ground. Take the motion to the end of the Follow-Through -- BothArms Straight Position -- and make sure your left wrist is flat and yourright wrist has remained bent. Hit a lot of these shots and monitor thefollow-through -- which is also the finish in this case -- and ask:
First Imperative: "Is my Left Wrist Flat? Is my Right WristBent?"
Second Imperative: "Did I feel and sustain the loading pressureagainst the passive first joint of my Right Forefinger throughout theDownstroke, Impact, the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight) and even into myFinish?
Third Imperative: "Did I trace the Straight Plane Line? And did Idirect the Clubhead Lag Down -- through the Ball, throughthe Aiming Point, through the Low Point, through to the end ofthe Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight Position)?"
Then, do what you can to achieve these alignments during your full Strokes. Donot think of how you're going to do it, just focus on your objective.
Anyway OB, that's enough for about 6 more months of practice.
I feel par coming on! Thanks!
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Is that how a pro or talented golfer manages so much more compression? 
They sight down the right forearm well ahead of the ball and keep driving down?
, I "forced" a strong sand iron to a 95 yard carry over water (instead of the usual 80 yard carry and 10 yards of roll). I then "forced" a 6 iron to a 185 yards of carry vs. the usual 170 yards of carry and roll. In both cases, I did not really get much of a divot but just sighted further ahead down the right arm and along the target line. I made sure my FBRW was rock solid throughoutt the round and really Pivoted strongly.
Thanks!
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